tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post2246006801996107953..comments2024-01-09T16:41:49.300+00:00Comments on Deputy Tadier's Blog: The GST Party Win AgainDeputy Montfort Tadierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-91424644423293374962010-12-14T13:00:58.725+00:002010-12-14T13:00:58.725+00:00ILM is a paid up member of the GST + exemptions pa...ILM is a paid up member of the GST + exemptions party and has consistently voted that way since elected (it is in his manifesto).<br /><br />John Le Fondre, by contrast, is a consitent opponent of exemptions, and has always voted that way (and it was in his manifesto).Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-79001144897908419482010-12-14T10:58:21.323+00:002010-12-14T10:58:21.323+00:00http://tonymusings.blogspot.com/2010/12/order-matt...http://tonymusings.blogspot.com/2010/12/order-matters.html<br /><br />See why the order matters, and how Jersey and the UK differ from Europe on how voting is done.TonyTheProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10486414706261508994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-37123228027678194112010-12-12T20:42:41.742+00:002010-12-12T20:42:41.742+00:00Comment from Martin, edited to avoid any libel:
m...Comment from Martin, edited to avoid any libel:<br /><br />mr tadier not personal go let the poor the ones on incomesupport the pensioner,s who are going without food for heating they will not ask but they suffer and you say it,s not personal when you walk past [x's] house see he,s table full of wine tons of food as he sits there on show but unfortunately nobody dose anything but pay lip service that is untill next year when votes are needed were is the accountability no one i talk two has any faith in most of this government mybe it would be better to put all of us the poor the pensioner,s those of us on income support in the all singing all dancing incinrator and be done with itDeputy Montfort Tadierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-23030061315478021672010-12-11T11:17:31.457+00:002010-12-11T11:17:31.457+00:00Hi Martin,
FYI, Lunches are not longer free for S...Hi Martin,<br /><br />FYI, Lunches are not longer free for States Members: I flagged up the issue and Shona's proposition in 2009 put a stop to that. I should point out that we get the same % pay rise as public sector workers. As for choking on lunches, I can say that I hope no-one chokes. What we are fighting against is ideological, not personal.Deputy Montfort Tadierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-25511508887032262502010-12-11T00:31:05.177+00:002010-12-11T00:31:05.177+00:00Only four or so supported Deputy Geoff Southern to...Only four or so supported Deputy Geoff Southern to keep GST at 3% for a year and so in that sense all the others share the logic of the GST Party, or at least do not reject it fundametally. Like so many they have bought into the need for cuts. We need to reject the whole nonsence of Austerity being economic, when in fact its political.<br /><br />Of course ILM is a paid up member of the GST Party; he would not be trusted otherwise to be a COM member.<br /><br />Green is a Jersey Tory at heart, but vacillating. He could be won to the path of righteousness were there sufficient progressive forces inside the States and, crucially, externally. Because the working class is not mobilised their anger has no bearing on the political process. Let them rot in their tower blocks; they will never rebel!<br /><br />Better still lets replace the entire GST Party. Kick them out!Black Baronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13436789420960285342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-61557672887423942572010-12-11T00:26:31.371+00:002010-12-11T00:26:31.371+00:00Here is the response from the Greffier:
'The ...Here is the response from the Greffier:<br /><br />'The order in which amendments are taken is determined largely by the provisions of Standing Order 70(2) which states that where there is more than one amendment to a proposition they shall be debated in the order in which they relate to the text of the proposition. So for the vast majority of amendments it is a simple exercise to identify the order in which they are taken by following the text of the proposition.<br /> <br />In the case of P.157/2010 we therefore had to list the amendments to paragraph (a) then those to paragraph (b) etc. Within paragraph (b) there was a direct reference to Summary Table B on page 74 and so, following the requirement of Standing Order 70(2), the amendments were listed in the order to which they related to the list of taxes in that Table, ie income tax, then GST, then Stamp Duty. If you look through the running order used you will see that the order of almost all the amendments was set out automatically in accordance with the above Standing Order requirement.<br /> <br />Occasionally there is more than one amendment to the same part of the text of the proposition and in these case Standing Order 70(3) allows the presiding officer to decide the order in which they are moved. The criteria that will be used in these cases is to try, if at all possible, to ensure that members are given the maximum choice possible in terms of the amendments. Standing Order 70(4) provides that an amendment cannot be proposed if it is inconsistent with an earlier decision taken in the debate and so every attempt is made to list amendments in an order that allows maximum flexibility. The only amendments in P.157/2010 where a judgement was needed (as they related to the same part of the text) were those relating to GST. In the case of these amendments an order was designed to ensure that every option was possible as members progressed through the debate as set out in the aide mémoire I sent around to members a few days before the debate. If, for example, an alternative order had been chosen and the exemptions debate had been taken first and then a 6% GST rate agreed it would have been impossible for any subsequent debate to have taken place on 3% or 4% rates as that would have been inconsistent with the decision taken to go for a 6% rate.<br /> <br />For the sake of completeness I would just mention that where there are amendments to amendments they must, of course, be taken as 'mini debates' after the amendment has been proposed. There was, as a result, no choice other than to list the amendments to amendments (for example the Minister's 6% rate amendment to Deputy Green's amendment on exemptions) immediately after the main amendment itself on the running order.<br /> <br />I hope that helps.'Deputy Montfort Tadierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-76640620495822378852010-12-10T14:49:27.200+00:002010-12-10T14:49:27.200+00:00It is, in practice, done by the States Greffe, but...It is, in practice, done by the States Greffe, but there is a certain protocol about how the amendments are prioritised. I will make an inqury now for you to the Greffier and revert.Deputy Montfort Tadierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-24645324647834212202010-12-10T07:50:56.923+00:002010-12-10T07:50:56.923+00:00That's an interesting point - who decided the ...That's an interesting point - who decided the order of the votes? Because that was obviously very significant in how people voted. If you thought exemptions were going to get through, you might not be too bothered over giving way over a freeze.TonyTheProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10486414706261508994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-71573557312740208372010-12-10T06:40:19.787+00:002010-12-10T06:40:19.787+00:00whoppe gst gose up the lest well off suffer more t...whoppe gst gose up the lest well off suffer more the rich stay happy states members get £800 only in jersey well i hope they all choke on there most probably free lunch along with there free drinks bring on next years election,smartinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-84929262950343087402010-12-10T01:40:57.336+00:002010-12-10T01:40:57.336+00:00I'm not sure either. What I do know is that th...I'm not sure either. What I do know is that they voted to increase GST and they did that knowing full well there was no assurance that exemptions would get passed. So effectively they have voted to increase tax on food and domestic energy by a further 2%.<br /><br />I wonder had the votes taken place the other way round whether there would have been a different outcomeDeputy Montfort Tadierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-75264449175603580712010-12-09T09:50:41.820+00:002010-12-09T09:50:41.820+00:00In fairness, Monty, Ian Le Marquand and Andrew Gre...In fairness, Monty, Ian Le Marquand and Andrew Green have both signed up to the exemptions on GST. I'm not sure you can say that makes them part of the GST party!TonyTheProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10486414706261508994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-72098977914817083532010-12-09T07:22:10.347+00:002010-12-09T07:22:10.347+00:00Interesting that ALL St saviour deputies voted aga...Interesting that ALL St saviour deputies voted against this yet the constable voted FOR it so much for joined up Parish politics,think that a challenge to this constable should be instigated at next election!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3258990332470277140.post-54701058985998985442010-12-09T06:32:06.738+00:002010-12-09T06:32:06.738+00:00This is my establishment party list. Its the one I...This is my establishment party list. Its the one I use on my Blog and these are the ones voting us down the river. Check them off against the list above.<br /><br /><br />Senator Perchard<br />Senator Terry Le Sueur<br />Senator Paul Routier<br />Senator Philip Ozouf<br />Senator Terry Le Main<br />Senator Ben Shenton<br />Senator Freddie Cohen<br />Senator Sarah Ferguson<br />Senator Alan Maclean<br />Senator Ian Le Marquand<br /><br />Connetable Len Norman<br />Connetable Silvanus Yates<br /><br />Connetable Daniel Murpthy<br /><br />Connétable Ken Vibert<br />Connétable John Gallichan<br />Connétable Mike Jackson<br />Connétable Graham Butcher<br />Connétable Peter Hanning<br />Connétable John Refault<br />Connétable Juliette Gallichan<br /><br /><br />Deputy Ben Fox<br />Deputy James Reed<br />Deputy Jackie Hilton<br />Deputy Ian Gorst<br />Deputy Phil Rondel<br />Deputy Angela Jeune<br />Deputy Ann Dupré<br />Deputy Eddie Noel<br />Deputy Andrew Green M.B.E.<br /><br />This is the 99% of the time bloc vote<br /><br />rsrico sordahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09370637157786202673noreply@blogger.com